Author Topic: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian (Read 5229 times)

nightmare989 · « **on:** November 17, 2012, 02:55:14 am »

some phones are still sold in some stores and have got decent specs, but they are abandoned:
- by nokia (no more major OS updates planned for Symbian after belle FP2)
- even on nokia apps (No nokia drive+ or Maps 3.0 will be relased).
- Microsoft is making fun of us because Microsoft apps have been relased but they are only crappy useless toys
- in addiction app-developers abandoned us (we have problems even to find out a decent facebook client, whatsapp has almost no integration with the system and fruit ninja doesn't even support the multitouch...simply ridiculous)
- "indipendent developers" (like modders and people on forums) can't do anything because nokia phones seem to be protected better than NASA computers =s

In conclusion: I have got a Nokia 701, so I am running nokia belle FP2 and it's not so bad (of course, in your hands you have got an 1.3 Ghz terminal but it doesn't seems at all, nokia N8 runs almost as well as my phone =_=" shame on nokia!), but the real problem is the total lack of decent apps, because the few developers who publish apps in the nokia store make the apps compatible with all Symbian versions (s60v3, s60v5, s^3), so the result is apps with crappy speed and graphics.

So the question is why not porting android?

I KNOW THAT THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ASKED MANY TIMES, BUT AFTER MANY WORDS NOBODY DID ANYTHING, SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE..LET'S TRY.

Don't worry about developing kernels, drivers or other problems, what is needed is to try to unlock nokia bootloader or a way to bypass those hash checks built into cores.

I want to remember that on older devices (Siemens SX1, Sony ericcson p800-p900) is possible to load Linux distros.

PLEASE, BEFORE SAYING IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, LET'S TRY SOMETHING...PLEASE..

Allstar12345 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2012, 03:04:02 am »

Why Android ?
Why try to run the OS that killed our Symbian in the first place ?

As a developer i do take the "lack of decent apps" to heart, a good 80% of all new apps are written in Qt and Qml with Qt quick components which make them only compatible with Anna and above in the majority of cases.

And the difference in performance between Feature pack 2 devices and First generation Belle devices is massive.. Put it to the test, the old generation devices struggle now with heavy tasks where the newer generation devices do not.

nightmare989 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2012, 03:53:18 pm »

Let's face reality..you can't say that it's only android's fault..nokia was the queen of phone sellings, so if it found a way to modernize and update itself, now would be still the number one. But, by its own ammission, nokia managed wrong politics, and needed to start from scratch with another OS (Windows). And it worked, because in this days the nokia lumia 920 is the best seller in USA, Beyond every prevision. After the advent of 5800 nokia hasn't been able to fill the gap with other OS..not only android, even Windows phone 7 and iOS of course, are faster and graphically better.

For example: turn your nokia on..and swipe from your home screen to another active home screen with widgets..you wil see that on every boot the system has to reload widgets from scratch and you have to wait a few seconds. Try to open Microsoft apps and count: it takes two-three seconds with the turning circle and other two-three seconds eith the introductive screen. Those are only a pair of examples to tell you that mobile phones with decent specifics can't have all those slow downs, compared with 1Ghz both android or Windows phone mobiles.

Think at the Amazing animations that has got Windows phone when you open an app, or the fluid animations when you swipe from a page to another on android's menu. Nokia on this aspects is far far behind.

Now let's talk about apps..look at whatsapp for Windows phone and android: nothing to compare with the one on Symbian: it has no integration with the system..look at facebook apps for android and for Windows phone: they are free, fluent, graphically cared with little animations, and the experience is close to the desktop one..download from facebook site the app for Symbian. No comment on that. The only decent is fmobi, but it's a PAY APP, let's say!!!

Look at the number of apps present on the store...it's a very little number, and this number is decreasing.

(I WRITE IN UPPERCASE NOT TO SHOUT BUT TO UNDERLINE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE POST) IN CONCLUSION: YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU HATE ANDROID, AND THAT LAST GENERATION SYMBIAN PHONES ARE BETTER THAN THE FIRST GENERATION. BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT SYMBIAN IS COMPARABLE TO ANY OTHER OS PRESENT ON THE MARKET. NOKIA TOLD TO US: SYMBIAN IS GONNA DIE. I SUPPOSE IT'S A REASONABLE IDEA THINKING TO PORT ANOTHER OS (I THOUGHT TO ANDROID BECAUSE IS THE MOST SIMPLY TO PORT) ON MOBILE PHONES WITH DECENT HARDWARE LIMITED ONLY BY A DYING OPERATING SYSTEM. I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO USE ANDROID OR ANY OTHER OS, BUT I THINK THAT NOKIA USERS SHOULD HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE CHOICE.

Allstar12345 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2012, 04:16:00 pm »

Quote from: nightmare989 on November 17, 2012, 03:53:18 pm

Let's face reality..you can't say that it's only android's fault..nokia was the queen of phone sellings, so if it found a way to modernize and update itself, now would be still the number one. But, by its own ammission, nokia managed wrong politics, and needed to start from scratch with another OS (Windows). And it worked, because in this days the nokia lumia 920 is the best seller in USA, Beyond every prevision. After the advent of 5800 nokia hasn't been able to fill the gap with other OS..not only android, even Windows phone 7 and iOS of course, are faster and graphically better.

For example: turn your nokia on..and swipe from your home screen to another active home screen with widgets..you wil see that on every boot the system has to reload widgets from scratch and you have to wait a few seconds. Try to open Microsoft apps and count: it takes two-three seconds with the turning circle and other two-three seconds eith the introductive screen. Those are only a pair of examples to tell you that mobile phones with decent specifics can't have all those slow downs, compared with 1Ghz both android or Windows phone mobiles.

Think at the Amazing animations that has got Windows phone when you open an app, or the fluid animations when you swipe from a page to another on android's menu. Nokia on this aspects is far far behind.

Now let's talk about apps..look at whatsapp for Windows phone and android: nothing to compare with the one on Symbian: it has no integration with the system..look at facebook apps for android and for Windows phone: they are free, fluent, graphically cared with little animations, and the experience is close to the desktop one..download from facebook site the app for Symbian. No comment on that. The only decent is fmobi, but it's a PAY APP, let's say!!!

Look at the number of apps present on the store...it's a very little number, and this number is decreasing.

(I WRITE IN UPPERCASE NOT TO SHOUT BUT TO UNDERLINE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE POST) IN CONCLUSION: YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU HATE ANDROID, AND THAT LAST GENERATION SYMBIAN PHONES ARE BETTER THAN THE FIRST GENERATION. BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT SYMBIAN IS COMPARABLE TO ANY OTHER OS PRESENT ON THE MARKET. NOKIA TOLD TO US: SYMBIAN IS GONNA DIE. I SUPPOSE IT'S A REASONABLE IDEA THINKING TO PORT ANOTHER OS (I THOUGHT TO ANDROID BECAUSE IS THE MOST SIMPLY TO PORT) ON MOBILE PHONES WITH DECENT HARDWARE LIMITED ONLY BY A DYING OPERATING SYSTEM. I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO USE ANDROID OR ANY OTHER OS, BUT I THINK THAT NOKIA USERS SHOULD HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE CHOICE.

The only OS that doesn't load the widgets from scratch when swiping is Meego, Android does..

Microsoft apps run on Qml, a heavy non completed Application platform, the introductory screen is set to be there for 3 seconds that the point of it, Android and WP devices have better processors then Symbian devices, they use snapdragons ect while we use the outdated and cheaper ARM 11 which is not up to the job..
The Symbian Transitions are simple and elegant, they do the job, if you want mad posh ones use perfectly smooth and fast Custom effects !

App's they have not integration for the system.. not our fault, not the devs fault, not Symbian's fault.. It's Nokia that won't release the API's to us.

The Facebook app is a silly little Java app and runs crap on any OS.

And i do look at the amount of apps on store there at hundreds of thousands, no-one can be bothered to properly look so they come to a idiotic conclusion that there are no apps.

Symbian has potential and has being messed around left right and centre, If Nokia had bothered to port it to a decent architecture and use decent hardware we wouldn't be in this mess, Symbian isn't bad at all, it does the same as other OS's, does the job well, the sad reality is people hear the word Symbian and immediately think it's S60 v5 which to be frank was a load of crap.

Il.Socio · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2012, 04:27:45 pm »

Quote

I KNOW THAT THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN ASKED MANY TIMES, BUT AFTER MANY WORDS NOBODY DID ANYTHING, SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE..LET'S TRY.

Ok, let's make a deal... You find me the full specs for the Nokia's firmware file format and I'll port you anything you like!

Allstar12345 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2012, 04:31:06 pm »

Quote from: Il.Socio on November 17, 2012, 04:27:45 pm

Ok, let's make a deal... Find me the full specs for the Nokia's firmware file format and I'll port you anything you like!

Hi Il.Socio, never knew you was on SD

Il.Socio · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2012, 04:33:38 pm »

I like to lurk almost everywhere

Btw, nice work you're doing here

Allstar12345 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2012, 05:20:50 pm »

Quote from: Il.Socio on November 17, 2012, 04:33:38 pm

I like to lurk almost everywhere
Btw, nice work you're doing here

We do our best

ektosknot · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2012, 01:54:42 am »

Quote from: Allstar12345 on November 17, 2012, 04:16:00 pm

The only OS that doesn't load the widgets from scratch when swiping is Meego, Android does..

Microsoft apps run on Qml, a heavy non completed Application platform, the introductory screen is set to be there for 3 seconds that the point of it, Android and WP devices have better processors then Symbian devices, they use snapdragons ect while we use the outdated and cheaper ARM 11 which is not up to the job..
The Symbian Transitions are simple and elegant, they do the job, if you want mad posh ones use perfectly smooth and fast Custom effects !

App's they have not integration for the system.. not our fault, not the devs fault, not Symbian's fault.. It's Nokia that won't release the API's to us.

The Facebook app is a silly little Java app and runs crap on any OS.

And i do look at the amount of apps on store there at hundreds of thousands, no-one can be bothered to properly look so they come to a idiotic conclusion that there are no apps.

Symbian has potential and has being messed around left right and centre, If Nokia had bothered to port it to a decent architecture and use decent hardware we wouldn't be in this mess, Symbian isn't bad at all, it does the same as other OS's, does the job well, the sad reality is people hear the word Symbian and immediately think it's S60 v5 which to be frank was a load of crap.

Yes you are right, symbian has potential, allot of. I would say, has enough power to put android and ios to shame. But, Nokia instead of working on it's core, ditched it! As far as i know and learned, Symbian does not support dual-core and also does not support bigger resolution the 640*480. That is why even the latest camera monster 808 does not have a better screen or a dual. Is not like Nokia could not do that. This would be a pathetic Troll joke. So it is not Nokia's fault that they didn't put any (lumia 920) specs in Symbian to be interesting for the mass. But it was their fault they did not invested enough into making Symbian supporting better hardware. Maybe it was to late (cause android came like a running horse) and they needed to adopt a "better" system as quick as possible. Android was a no go. Cause, let's be serious, Symbian with a dual core would eat this robot like a muffin. So they took wp by the horns. Microsoft has an history into making operating systems, is not like they are some google newbies. So nokia bet on wp, we bet on Nokia and the circle is closed. I just hope nokia will make some investment money and will bring back Symbian. Now being in maintenance mode, they have enough time to concentrate on the core and make our beloved live again. Also a release of the source code will bring allot of developers back.

Il.Socio · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2012, 05:50:31 am »

Actually, Symbian does support multicore (see SMP - Symmetric MultiProcessor) and the whole ui does supports ANY resolution too, because all the standard controls are based on vector graphic (svg), so it can immediately scale to any kind of resolution without any problem... that's one of major pros of Symbian.
http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/GUID-E35887BB-7E58-438C-AA27-97B2CDE7E069/GUID-6F1ED7D0-5F41-4587-89AA-8DDE7AEC916F.html

The main problem of Symbian is that maintain the kernel and develop new os features takes too much time (meaning money), compared to others os like IOS and Android.
For this very same reason, the whole Avkon UI was replaced with the new Qt... but despite this change, Nokia noticed that it was not enough to keep the os updated and let it grow as fast as the competitors.

Allstar12345 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2012, 02:23:30 pm »

Quote from: Il.Socio on November 18, 2012, 05:50:31 am

Actually, Symbian does support multicore (see SMP - Symmetric MultiProcessor) and the whole ui does supports ANY resolution too, because all the standard controls are based on vector graphic (svg), so it can immediately scale to any kind of resolution without any problem... that's one of major pros of Symbian.
http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/GUID-E35887BB-7E58-438C-AA27-97B2CDE7E069/GUID-6F1ED7D0-5F41-4587-89AA-8DDE7AEC916F.html

The main problem of Symbian is that maintain the kernel and develop new os features takes too much time (meaning money), compared to others os like IOS and Android.
For this very same reason, the whole Avkon UI was replaced with the new Qt... but despite this change, Nokia noticed that it was not enough to keep the os updated and let it grow as fast as the competitors.

Yup, knew part of that myself, though the resolution changes have caused some problems in the E6.

Though he ui is still Avkon based I'm sure, you can still see the slow redrawing in some places.
But atleast the new keyboard is a standalone qml app.

Il.Socio · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2012, 03:38:41 pm »

Quote from: Allstar12345 on November 18, 2012, 02:23:30 pm

Though he ui is still Avkon based I'm sure, you can still see the slow redrawing in some places.

You're right... it was to be replaced. I just checked and currently avkon has been deprecated, but it's still the main ui layer.
Unfortunately, we'll never see a Qt based Symbian version

saikat.mondol1 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2012, 06:05:47 pm »

hey, Socio. What do you mean by full firmware format spec? Give a definition, and i'll try to help

Allstar12345 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2012, 06:41:08 pm »

Quote from: Il.Socio on November 18, 2012, 03:38:41 pm

You're right... it was to be replaced. I just checked and currently avkon has been deprecated, but it's still the main ui layer.
Unfortunately, we'll never see a Qt based Symbian version

Well a Qt based version would kill all the old apps written in native c++ like Rompatcher+

Il.Socio · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2012, 07:03:00 pm »

Quote from: saikat.mondol1 on November 18, 2012, 06:05:47 pm

hey, Socio. What do you mean by full firmware format spec? Give a definition, and i'll try to help

Quote from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_format#Specifications
"Many file formats, including some of the most well-known, have a published specifications (often with a reference implementation) that describe the method of encoding data and can be used to test whether a program treats a particular file format correctly. Not all formats have freely available specification documents, partly because some developers view their specification documents as trade secrets, and partly because other developers never author a formal specification document, letting precedent set by other programs define the format.

If the developer of a format doesn't publish free specifications, another developer looking to utilize that kind of file must either reverse engineer the file to find out how to read it or acquire the specification document from the format's developers for a fee and by signing a non-disclosure agreement. The latter approach is possible only when a formal specification document exists. Both strategies require significant time, money, or both; therefore, file formats with publicly available specifications tend to be supported by more programs."

As example, you can see the SISX file format spec:
http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/File:SymbianOSv9.x_SIS_File_Format_Specification.pdf
The Midi file format spec:
http://www.fileformat.info/format/midi/corion.htm
The zip file format spec:
http://www.pkware.com/documents/casestudies/APPNOTE.TXT

Symbian-Developers

Author Topic: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian (Read 5229 times)

nightmare989

[concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Allstar12345

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

nightmare989

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Allstar12345

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Il.Socio

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Allstar12345

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Il.Socio

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Allstar12345

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

ektosknot

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Il.Socio

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Allstar12345

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Il.Socio

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

saikat.mondol1

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Allstar12345

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian

Il.Socio

Re: [concrete hel needed] android on symbian